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Ace Attorney Replay!

And we're off once more! I've revised the schedule; take a look and…

The Ace Attorney Group Playthrough Community

A rundown of how the marathon is going to work is on the community's profile page.

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And we're off once more! I've revised the schedule; take a look and let me know if it seems fair!

Official 2-2 Discussion Post

For all your discussing needs! Or something! Feel free to post:
  • Entertaining quotes!

  • Thought-provoking meta!

  • Wild crack theories!

  • Plot bunnies!

  • Parallels to Arthurian mythology!

  • Speculation about just how many times Mystic Ami's urn has been broken!

  • [Insert clever thing here] I know these just reek of Trying Too Hard, sorry

  • Anything and everything else!

Have at it! And have fun!
  • Morgan Fey is fun to write as a complete nutcase, even if that's not a completely fair interpretation.

    ... Just sayin'.
    • I feel like as she gets more and more desperate through out the series it becomes more fair :P

      Of course, we don't get to see her as she plots the events of 3-5.
    • I love Morgan and her snarking. And she's so passive-agressive at Phoenix about Maya (... while plotting to kill her) and like.. EVERYTHING ELSE. I lol'd
  • Babbly-babble:

    — Favorite Lines/Dialogue —
    Franziska: Feel free to sulk off with your tail between your legs, Mr. Phoenix Wright!
    Phoenix: (Please stop calling me by my full name. It's disturbing.)

    Judge (after Lotta complains about Franziska whipping her): Now, now, let's all be one big happy family... OK...?

    Judge (on Phoenix breaking down the Channeling Chamber door): Oh, really? That's something I would've liked to see.

    Phoenix: (Alright! With this, the rest of the trial should be in the b––)
    Franziska smirks.
    Phoenix: (... blast radius of disaster).

    Interesting conversation —
    Phoenix: M-maya. How are you...? It's good to see you again.
    Maya: Wow, I didn't think you'd really show up!
    Phoenix: It's not that big a deal. You made it sound like you were soooo far away.
    Maya: Well, maybe I exaggerated... just a little.
    Phoenix: It was only 2 hours by train. If I had known you were this close, I'd have visited more.
    Maya: No! You're not allowed. I already decided, you know. Until I become an adult, I have to work hard and be strong by myself...
    Phoenix: Oh... well... Anyway, congratulations. I'm glad to hear training is going well for you.
    Maya: Heh, heh...

    This conversation brings up some interesting points concerning Phoenix and Maya. Why didn't Maya think Phoenix would show up? Why does Maya seem nervous about her training? Did Maya actually tell Phoenix not to come visit her?

    Okay, now on to the real stuff. A lot that can be said about this case. This case is really interesting from the story telling and character aspects of the game.

    From the actual game play aspect, it's frustrating at times. There are a lot of problems with the possible evidence you could logically present, when they only really want one particular piece.

    Sometimes, I just wanted to be able to pull a Detective Reveal and lay out what happened, given the evidence. It seemed obvious to me that there was a possibility, given the layout of the room, and the fact that there was some random girl hanging around who wasn't technically accounted for during the murder. Besides, Lotta was the one who said that there was no one else in the room, but then again, it's Lotta. It's enough to make things look shady, and having all that lead up to the stupid key was irritating.

    On the other hand, yay for the magatama! Despite the fact I really like the first game's general game play, I do enjoy the magatama mechanic and the fact it makes it easier to not have to do as much guesswork if someone is going to give you important/useful information or not.
    • Re: Babbly-babble: continued...

      Stupid character limits. ~_~

      Now to characters:

      Dr. Turner Grey – Lotta has an interesting way of describing the man ("I hear he's good at surgery and stuff, but his personality stinks like wet sheep."), which is pretty much on the money. Between all the stuff he says to Phoenix, it's obvious that Dr. Grey's definitely a jerk and few pickles short of a barrel.

      Pearl Fey – I don't know why, but Pearl is one of my favorite AA characters. Maybe it's because she's cute. Or the tragedy of her childhood? Her toughness? I don't know – it's probably all of that; I just really like Pearl. (I don't like her leitmotif, though.)

      In other comments about her, what exactly did Maya say about Phoenix to Pearl? Did Maya have a little crush on Phoenix? Was it just that she mentioned Phoenix and Pearl, given Kurain's issues and her mother's problems with husbands, latched on to the fairy tale ideas for the second most important person in her life?

      Morgan Fey – Talk about a cobra woman. Despite what we learn about her later (her husband leaving her after the whole DL-6 channeling debacle), I have no sympathy for her. Not only does she really only seem to value Pearl in order to gain power, but she tries to get her niece, who has relied on her to be a mother figure for most of her life, falsely convicted of murder to get revenge on her absent sister. I feel really bad for both Maya and Pearl, given the circumstances.

      Franziska von Karma – Yeah, you can tell that she's Manfred von Karma's daughter. And that she's pretty much spent most of her life trying to outdo Edgeworth to get her father's attention. There is too much to say about her... just too much.

      • Mimi Miney – Though I feel a little sorry for her that she had to live her sister's life for a while, it was her own choice.

      What flyingskull said in the 2-1 discussion about the theme of people refusing to take responsibility for their actions is totally spot on. It's not just the culprits in each case either.

      That's enough of my babble for now, and since most of my other comments tie into 2-4, I'll wait until then to make them.
      • Re: Babbly-babble: continued...

        Heh... thanks for the quote and no, it's not just the culprits, it's everyone.
    • Re: Babbly-babble:

      About gameplay, I'm probably a Ms Plod myself because I never had any real problems about the progression of presented evidence. I mean, it's quite easy to know whodunnit in all the games and not too hard to work out how they dunnit, what I find most interesting is the way you have no real control on how the trial progresses because, as a defense attorney you have no power (for example you can't ask a witness to avoid saying things, if they are against your defendant and peripherally connected to the murder itself); so you have to use what you have to force the trial to go in the direction you want and have to do it one small step at a time.

      I love the magatama and its use in the investigation phase because it works like the trial phase. I confess I'm not enamoured of the CSI-like gimmicks in 1-5 and AJ, so that's probably just me. I also love the graphics and the music of it.
      • Re: Babbly-babble:

        I'm probably way too hard on JFA because of how I've observed other people play the game, and because of the order in which I've played the games (PW, AJ, JFA, AAI, 1-5, and then T&T). My husband had a lot of difficulty with some of the trial sections because he didn't realize that he would have to present the same piece of evidence several times, or he expected Phoenix to present the evidence with one argument only to be surprised and have him argue something completely different. (I told my husband today, while he was finishing 2-4, that sometimes you have to think like Phoenix would to get the right answer.)

        I do agree with you about the who and how (they're not hard). I guess I get overly excited at slow investigation or trial points because I feel like 'the writing's on the wall, why can't everyone else see it?' sometimes.

        I like pretty much all of the game play gimmicks in the series. CSI stuff, the Perceive/Tells stuff, Logic... all of them are interesting (though, I do sort of feel bad for Edgeworth – short stick on cool 'power' or what) and have potential to be fun and useful. I think the application of these in play are what make them weak or strong.
        • Re: Babbly-babble:

          I started with 3-1 and then I realised I had got the order wrong >.< so I went back to 1 and plodded on. Mind you, I get impatient with the thing as well from time to time, but I'm not a gamer - AA is the only thing I've played, because every other game bores me to tears - so I probably lack the trigger-happy mental reflexes true gamers possess. Ah, well...

          You feel bad for Edgeworth? He's got the coolest powers of all: Logic and Deduction! He's Holmes! Holmes has been my hero since I was six! "You see, Gumshoe, but you do not observe." Whooooooooooooooop. I mean, I love the magatama and the spirit channeling and all that jazz, but I'm too old school of a whodunnit fan not to love Dupin and Holmes' way of solving things more.
          • Re: Babbly-babble:

            My impatience actually comes from the fact I was raised on Holmes, Dupin, Poirot, Father Brown, etc. I've been reading/watching/playing detective stories since before I was in school. Logic and deduction are the proper method for solving anything, and when presented in dialogue, it is really cool. It just seems a little weird as an actual game play element.
            • Re: Babbly-babble:

              Aaaah! Now I understand. Well, maybe it's a little weird, but I love the fact that I'm using a proper method of amateur sleuthing in investigations instead of some mystical-magical thingy. Though, if one thinks about it, Logic and Deduction should be accompanied by CSI stuff, shouldn't they?
              • Re: Babbly-babble:

                Of course!
                (I do love the CSI stuff most of all). I just enjoy having something mix it up a little bit, that's all.

                A little bit of random information: The concept of mystical/supernatural help in East Asian mysteries is a very old one. Many early Chinese and Japanese mysteries may include gaining information from spirits or even the victim him/her self. In some stories, the imparting of supernatural 'help' has actually been a hinderance, with the victim's account fingering the wrong person (sometimes on purpose).

                For example, in the Chinese tale of "The Judicial Murder of Tsui Ning", which dates back to the 12th century, the eponymous character and another character are falsely accused of murder, found guilty, and executed. After various series of events that leaves the victim's wife in the hands of the real murderer, the spirits of the wrongly executed help the woman find evidence in order to reveal the murderer and avenge both themselves and the victim.

                Akutagawa Ryunosuke's story "In The Grove" uses the dead man's spirit as one of the seven testifying to the authorities. Though his story is more about perspective, the fact that he references the use of the supernatural points to the older use. The first Japanese writer to use the Western methodology was probably Edogawa Rampo with his detective Akechi Kogoro.
    • Re: Babbly-babble:

      This conversation brings up some interesting points concerning Phoenix and Maya. Why didn't Maya think Phoenix would show up? Why does Maya seem nervous about her training? Did Maya actually tell Phoenix not to come visit her?

      I'm totally going to go over this in more detail when I psychoanalyze Maya (WHICH I WILL DO) but if this case (along with 1-4) makes anything clear it's that Maya is very much lacking in self-confidence. She felt like she was a burden to Phoenix in 1-4 and didn't want to see him again until she could be of use to him, basically

      EDIT: Re Pearl, I don't think Maya had a crush on Phoenix, but I'm sure she talked about him so fondly Pearl's innershipper was like OMG. ALSO I think that giving a Magatama to a man is traditionally a sign of love (given how Mia reacts to it when you present it), so that cemented it in Pearl's head, even though I think Maya gave it to be of use to him. (I also think that's actually Misty's Magatama)

      Edited at 2010-10-18 03:06 am (UTC)
      • Re: Babbly-babble:

        Oh, that makes sense.

        You're right about Maya – she really does lack self-confidence. I guess her active, energetic persona sometimes serves to obscure her insecurities.
      • Re: Babbly-babble:

        I don't think Maya has ever had a crush on Phoenix as well.

        Is it possible, do you think, that it was Morgan herself who planted that idea in Pearl's head either directly to try and make Maya leave Kurain for marriage or somesuch, or indirectly by presenting herself - and Pearl - as the abandoned victims of cruel men?
        • Re: Babbly-babble:

          I don't think so. It's more likely a man would stay in Kurain to be with Maya, since she is the future Master (and Morgan herself was originally married by Dahlia's daddy for the position of the Master)... and Morgan actually really openly shows disdain for Phoenix and disdain for Maya being with him. In fact, as I look over the game script again, Morgan is pretty... protective of Maya, weirdly enough.

          I mean, it's hard to tell how much is faked, but Morgan actually makes a comment like "You're lucky I haven't killed you for working Maya so hard" to Phoenix, and it seems kind of counter-productive for that to be faked, since she'd want to appear as non-murdery as possible
          • Re: Babbly-babble:

            You're right, actually you couldn't be more right and I agree.

            Problem is, I'm stupid and forget that posting while half-asleep because of excitement and love of the game is never a good idea with me. Seems to reduce my IQ to single digits. Sorry.

            Typos. *sigh*

            Edited at 2010-10-20 07:30 pm (UTC)
  • In no particular order:

    - Turner Grey is like Bruce Ismay of Titanic fame, isn't he? If the weather girl says it won't rain, he won't carry an umbrella even if the sky is cloudy. If he gets wet it's her fault. He doesn't delegate, he dumps the responsibility for thinking for him on others. I love the absurd spazz though. Also, he's one of the only two victims we meet before they snuff it.

    - Mimi Miney. I loathe her. Lessee... she's a nurse, so her pay isn't high; how does she manage to keep her sister (Ini's a uni student, yes, but she lives at home with sis and I can't imagine that she, like, got a scholarship for, like, the occult), buy an imported sports car and pay for petrol and upkeep and suchlike? She must have either A) demanded Dr. Grey gave her lots and lots of work hours, telling him she could do it thus feeding his 'it's her' problem' syndrome or B) she made Dr. Grey pay for sexual favours and he was insatiable. In other words she's responsible for the death of 14 patients plus her younger sister; does she take responsibility for it? Naaah. It's all his fault, she's as white as the driven slush. Also, when she's not whingeing about how hard she's had it and implying that imitating her dead sister is a chore and a burden because, like, her sister was, like, an airhead, she's sneering and mouthing off about humble pie. Not to mention she plans and executes a pretty pointless murder and I bet it was she who gave Morgan the idea of getting rid of Maya by framing her. I'll never understand why so many people pity her, I find her despicable.

    - Questions: does Hotti (♥ Hotti) specify if they used Ini's photo because they found it or because she gave it to them?

    - Morgan is an odd little thing, isn't she? I mean, she all RRRRRAAAAARGH KILL MAYA!!!eleventy, but she's also the one who brought up Mia, Maya and Pearl and all three not only are decent persons, but they feel love and affection in varying degrees, because Mia has psychelocks (I always want to type psycholocks ;D) to hide her suspicions about Morgan and I can't really see Mia hiding a thing that could help Maya just to piss off Phoenix. I suspect that, until Mimi came to Kurain, Morgan was vaguely hoping Pearl would do a Misty and re-take the Mastery from a Maya she perceived as inferior in power. I can't see her as this sociopathic mastermind since the beginning of time. She's an opportunist. Which is why I consider the famous TaT letter to be an immense plothole unless one presumes she realised things were gong pear shaped and in a fit of fury - because, come on, she should have realised Pearl wasn't going to get the flowery language - wrote the letter hoping to persuade Dahlia Dearest to agree to her plan.

    - Ami Fey spirit got dispersed out and in the urn so many times - I mean we know the urn was broken at least three times, but who knows what Misty and Morgan had been up to when they were children? - that she got fed up with the whole thing and got a new job as a zanpaktou callilng herself Sode no Shirayuki ^_^; alternatively, she cursed all the Feys for nine generations and went off to Nirvana in a huff.

    - Fransiska von Karma is utter love. Also a hard working prosecutor and, for all her whipping and posturing, is the only other prosecutor in all the AA series to offer alternative interpretations of contradictions and the only one to take channeling in her stride without a blink. She may be opinionated, but she's not narrow-minded.

    - The AA series has a TON of fantastic female characters who are strong in the best sense of the word.

    - Boy, am I boring and incoherent!
    • I don't think what you have to say is boring at all. ^_^

      I completely agree with you about Mimi Miney.

      Morgan is a very fascinating character, no doubt about it. I only call her a cobra woman because she's disturbingly similar to some of the women in my own family, what with the passive-aggressiveness and all. What bothers me most is her relationship with her own daughter – she seems to view Pearl as a tool – does Morgan truly love her? The saddest thing is that this is a situation that has happened in real life countless times all over the place throughout history.

      My curiosity lies with Ami Fey, how the Fey family came to be the way it is, and whether the opportunity to change things is present for Maya and Pearl.

      Franziska von Karma is one of three characters in the Ace Attorney series I have continuing conflicted feelings about. On one hand, I completely agree with you about her – intelligent, hard working, quick thinking. These things, despite the posturing, make me really like her. On the other hand, she has such tunnel vision and does things that are so danged infuriating, that my gut just makes me angry with her. Despite the fact she's has had character development, she's still (deliciously) frustrating even when I know what she's going to do. I don't know – plenty of people have said more than I could ever say about her.
      • I realise I was utterly unclear about Morgan, sorry. She is a cobra, no doubts about it, what I was - badly - trying to say is: Pearl does not act like an unloved child, she's much more secure than Maya, much more assertive and, once she disobeys her mother's order not to talk to people, she's not shy at all with adults.

        I don't know, I may be utterly wrong and I rather detest the woman, but Mia, Maya and Pearl don't act like neglected or abused children and they have a pretty solid moral code which can't have been all Misty because, to be honest, Misty hasn't struck me as a good mother or a person of great integrity either. Who knows? Maybe the girls brought up one another and that's all there is to it.

        Well, yes, Fransiska is not a nice character and so not very likeable, but I do like her because for one, Manfred and for two, I used to be somewhat like her at her age, soo... heh.
        • Oh! Don't worry – I understand what you mean about Morgan. I don't think that Morgan ever neglected or abused Mia, Maya or Pearl. What frustrates me most about Morgan is that she was using Pearl, whether she said she did it 'for Pearl' or not. It's righteous indignation against misusing her role as Pearl's mother, as Maya's aunt, to use their trust in her for her own agenda.
          Like Phoenix, I despise betrayal.

          Yeah – Misty Fey = bad mother. The icing on the cake there is going along with the whole plan in 3-5. That was some kind of stupid, and definitely not being a good mom. (And I say this completely seriously as a mom).
    • - Mimi Miney. I loathe her. Lessee... she's a nurse, so her pay isn't high; how does she manage to keep her sister (Ini's a uni student, yes, but she lives at home with sis and I can't imagine that she, like, got a scholarship for, like, the occult), buy an imported sports car and pay for petrol and upkeep and suchlike? She must have either A) demanded Dr. Grey gave her lots and lots of work hours, telling him she could do it thus feeding his 'it's her problem' syndrome or B) she made Dr. Grey pay for sexual favours and he was insatiable.

      Or, C) she inherited money from a relative, D) bought a used car cheap and fixed it up all shiny in her spare time (There's a lot of car nuts who do this kind of thing), or a few other options that don't involve her suddenly being a whore?

      In other words she's responsible for the death of 14 patients plus her younger sister; does she take responsibility for it? Naaah. It's all his fault, she's as white as the driven slush. Also, when she's not whingeing about how hard she's had it and implying that imitating her dead sister is a chore and a burden because, like, her sister was, like, an airhead, she's sneering and mouthing off about humble pie.

      The whole responsibility issue was left pretty ambiguous. Dr. Grey bringing a gun could be construed as intention to force a confession from Mimi's spirit, I don't think you can really say for sure that one or the other is definitely responsible for it.

      (Myself, I think that the actual deaths were because of something Mimi did, but that there were a few things Grey did, like breaking union rules to make his nurses work more consecutive hours than were allowed, or ignoring safety standards to save a few bucks. Things that maybe didn't directly cause the deaths, but might have exonerated Mimi if the investigation had gone on long enough to reveal them. I realize this is headcanon to the extreme, so your interpretation is just as valid as mine.)

      And I always got the implication that impersonating Ini was a burden to Mimi because it was a constant reminder of what she'd lost. Especially with the whole occult thing, since her sister's dead and the focus on dead spirits only serves to remind her of that. The humble pie sneering was pretty jarring, but she was pretty unhinged through the whole investigation, i.e. forgetting that Phoenix already knew about her connection to Dr. Grey and just generally being jumpy and freaked out about everything. I took it as her spazzing the fuck out because, yeah, Mimi knew about Morgan's plan for her to kill Dr. Grey, but the reality of it didn't really sink in until she actually killed Grey. I think she was halfway into a mental breakdown before she even went up on the stand.

      Not to mention she plans and executes a pretty pointless murder and I bet it was she who gave Morgan the idea of getting rid of Maya by framing her. I'll never understand why so many people pity her, I find her despicable.

      I'll keep an eye out for this on my playthrough, but I'm pretty sure that it was explicitly said that Mimi approached Morgan because she wanted her to call off the channeling and Morgan was the one who got her wrapped up in the murder plot. Mimi was jumpy and terrified a lot of the time, whereas Morgan was all smirks, "Good sirs," and "I shall have my revenge!" I just plain don't buy Mimi as evil mastermind, and Morgan is practically a checklist. The reason I pity Mimi is the same reason I pity Yogi, because I think she's had a very unlucky life, and because of that, she was manipulated into murder by a complete monster.
      • I can't see her as this sociopathic mastermind since the beginning of time. She's an opportunist. Which is why I consider the famous TaT letter to be an immense plothole unless one presumes she realised things were gong pear shaped and in a fit of fury - because, come on, she should have realised Pearl wasn't going to get the flowery language - wrote the letter hoping to persuade Dahlia Dearest to agree to her plan.

        Can't she be a sociopathic mastermind and an opportunist? She's very patient and very careful, and she doesn't want to get her own hands dirty, but this is a woman willing to manipulate her own daughter to kill her daughter's best friend. She's a psycho. She might not have been a psycho when Pearl was born, in fact, she probably wasn't, but since the envelope left in her house was apparently written before her incarceration, she was a complete monster way before Mimi showed up.

        - Fransiska von Karma is utter love. Also a hard working prosecutor and, for all her whipping and posturing, is the only other prosecutor in all the AA series to offer alternative interpretations of contradictions and the only one to take channeling in her stride without a blink. She may be opinionated, but she's not narrow-minded.

        This, we can agree on. Also, the only prosecutor you ever see talking directly to a suspect, or at the scene of the crime.

        - Boy, am I boring and incoherent!

        BUT NOT AS BORING AND INCOHERENT AS ME, HAHAHA.
        • I still can't decide if that effing letter is a plothole or not. Morgan clearly writes it during 2-2 before she's sent to jail as a co-conspirator, but when exactly?

          There are two potential Morgans in there. One is the obsessed with revenge psycho oppportunist passive aggressive murderer (the one who writes the letter just before she's sent to jail for a long time) and the other is the cold-blooded patient sociopathic murderer (the one who had written the letter even before the events of 2-2 and, when Mimi came, decided to use a faster plan instead).

          I propend for the first hypothesis because Mia and Maya clearly feel affection for Morgan, so she mustn't have been such a monster to them when Misty left, but that's just my view of the character.

          Good heavens no, you aren't in the least boring OR incoherent.
      • Ah, sorry about the 'whore' thing, didn't really mean to insinuate, just to make a joke which I clearly shouldn't attempt. Still the car was new and imported (from UK in the localised version) so it must have cost a pretty penny. It's not explained in game how she got the money to buy it and keep it (and her sister) the most logical explanation being that Grey paid her well and she worked a lot.

        I think that she wanted to work a lot so as to have more money rather than Grey forced her into it, but I never meant to justify Grey in any way, shape or form. That's why I compared him to one of the most despicable men of the XX century.

        The problem with these two is that they keep dumping responsibility for their actions on each other; it's not so much that they lie - though they do - but that they retcon reality to their advantage, presenting themselves to themselves as victims instead of perps.

        There's another thing that some people seem to gloss over: if Mimi was falling asleep on her feet that fatal night, why didn't she call a cab? I understand not wanting her sister driving her pride and joy, but why insist on driving at all? There's something so horribly willful about Mimi and I think it manifests during the murder and, afterwards, when she's all sneering.

        I'll keep an eye out for this on my playthrough, but I'm pretty sure that it was explicitly said that Mimi approached Morgan because she wanted her to call off the channeling and Morgan was the one who got her wrapped up in the murder plot.

        Mimi approached Morgan about the channeling and then they concoted their plan, that's all the game tells us, IIRC, so I've probably gone off on one of my demented flights of fancy, but (my, deranged) logic tells me that the best thing for Morgan would have been for Maya to fail disastrously at channeling and be deemed unfit to become the Master. Morgan wouldn't have to risk anything, she had outsiders as witnesses to Maya's incompetence and lack of power and voila! I think the 'kill Grey' idea was Mimi's, because she can actually bury her past definitively and</i< with a scapegoat handy. In the end, though, I'm sure the details of the thing were all Morgan seeing the light, so to speak, and being immensely more efficient than Mimi.
        • Ah, sorry about the 'whore' thing, didn't really mean to insinuate, just to make a joke which I clearly shouldn't attempt.

          Oh. Sometimes I just suck at getting jokes, I guess. :)

          There's another thing that some people seem to gloss over: if Mimi was falling asleep on her feet that fatal night, why didn't she call a cab? I understand not wanting her sister driving her pride and joy, but why insist on driving at all? There's something so horribly willful about Mimi and I think it manifests during the murder and, afterwards, when she's all sneering.

          Well, if we want to be unfun, it's because the murder wouldn't have made sense without it. There's varying degrees of unlikely things throughout the Ace Attorney backstories, like Gant's prescience or Bat not noticing the pepper in his scarf or Furio fooling anyone or everybody sucking at their job in 4-3.

          If we want to logic it away, maybe Mimi actually was drugged and even though she was tired, she would have made it home if she hadn't suddenly conked out, or maybe she'd driven home tired before and had been perfectly fine so she didn't think it was a big deal. Maybe you're right and it was just Mimi being stupid and stubborn. That doesn't seem glaringly out of character.

          There are two potential Morgans in there. One is the obsessed with revenge psycho oppportunist passive aggressive murderer (the one who writes the letter just before she's sent to jail for a long time) and the other is the cold-blooded patient sociopathic murderer (the one who had written the letter even before the events of 2-2 and, when Mimi came, decided to use a faster plan instead).

          I propend for the first hypothesis because Mia and Maya clearly feel affection for Morgan, so she mustn't have been such a monster to them when Misty left, but that's just my view of the character.

          Morgan's letter is about as ridiculously prescient as Gant's plan in 1-5, no matter which one it is.

          As for the raising thing, I always got the impression that Maya was raised mostly by Mia, although that might just be because of Maya talking about her family in 1-2, before the writers had any plans for Kurain Village. And as for Kurain itself, it seems like a very community-centered village where many of the adults would take a hand in raising the village's children, although Pearls is probably a bit more sheltered than most, as Morgan seems very protective.

          Morgan kind of reminds me of Manfred, actually, but in a different way. Franziska's all messed up because Manfred was too busy playing chess with Edgeworth's future to actually care about her, whereas Pearl is all messed up because Morgan was too busy playing chess with Pearl's future to actually care about her. (Random Observation: Pearl's personality strikes me as being about halfway between Regina and Franziska. Does anybody else get this vibe? Makes sense, if you interpret Morgan's parenting as being halfway between Russel's "You're very special" and Manfred's not really giving a shit.)

          ALSO, MANFRED/MORGAN IS MY SHITTY PARENT OTP, THEY SHOULD GET ALL BRADY BUNCH ON EACH OTHER'S ASSES AND MOVE IN TOGETHER WITH MILES, FRANZISKA, FRANZISKA'S OLDER SISTER, IRIS, DAHLIA AND PEARL.

          YEEEEEEEEEEAH!
        • ALSO, MANFRED/MORGAN IS MY SHITTY PARENT OTP, THEY SHOULD GET ALL BRADY BUNCH ON EACH OTHER'S ASSES AND MOVE IN TOGETHER WITH MILES, FRANZISKA, FRANZISKA'S OLDER SISTER, IRIS, DAHLIA AND PEARL.

          ...I would totally read that fic if it existed.
        • OKAY GONNA BABBLE ABOUT MORGAN AND MAYA A BIT because this is a very unexplored topic

          I am also under the impression it was mostly Mia, and Mia left the village to go to do her lawyering somewhere between 18-21, leaving bitty Maya living alone, but with Morgan nearby. In 1-2, Maya says she was living alone after her sister left, but in 2-2, if you present Morgan's profile to Mia she'll say "I left my sister in Aunt Morgan's care". I'm thinking that Maya lived on her own but Aunt Morgan was nearby in an case anything happened. Maya speaks pretty fondly of her and was openly very upset when she found out she was plotting her murder. Morgan is also kind of... protective of Maya. I mean, (Harassing Phoenix about working Maya too hard, and she also slaps him for being a pervert when you show her a picture of Maya. HILARIOUS) I've noticed, and also Maya mentioning (teary-eyed, and sthat she woke up after the "channeling" being held in her aunt's arms. I mean, yeah, Morgan changed her and stuff for the plan, but I figure Maya started crying on her or something and Morgan comforted her idek. But of course, how much of that is part of her act is unknown.

          Morgan was definitely more of a mother to Maya than Misty was, something that is incredibly ironic.

          I'm not sure about Pearl. Honestly, Pearl is kind of... I don't know. Aside from the romance obsession, I wouldn't say Pearl is that messed up. I agree that Morgan probably obsessed way too much about her future to actually care about her, but Pearl maybe misinterpreted some of that as real love, or something. I'm guessing Morgan doted on her because of her spiritual power and stuff, as you said, the whole YOU ARE SPECIAL. Morgan was more obsessed with her progress and prowess more than anything, but she probably expressed her obsession (to Pearl, anyway) more akin to pride and Pearl mistook it as love. Although she seemed to discipline Pearl pretty hard, too.

          In any case, Pearl obviously loves her very very very very very much and is protective of her. As far as I can recall, Pearl only displays protectiveness of Morgan and of Maya, and I wonder how much the first has to do with the lack of father figure. Anyway, I babble way too much

          Morgan and Manfred are very similar and I TOTALLY SHIP THEM. Perfectly poised, murderers, raising enemy's child only to frame them for murder later, obsessed with the futuuuuureeee of child/adopted child, I COULD GO ON.

          That would be totally hilarious.
      • I definitely have to agree on your points about Mimi.
        Firstly, I kind of always thought that she bought the car used and spent her free time fixing it.
        Secondly, the death of those patients...
        I know how easy it is to make a mistake with medications if you're tired out of your mind, busy and under-resourced. I've had a couple of "whoups"-moments myself, but thank goodness I've always noticed them in time. So I can easily imagine that Mimi just didn't have the time to double-check, made a miscalculation and 14 people ended up dead.
        Depending on the way you look at it, it might have ultimately been "her fault", but I really can't hate her for it. It was an accident.
      • I took it as her spazzing the fuck out because, yeah, Mimi knew about Morgan's plan for her to kill Dr. Grey, but the reality of it didn't really sink in until she actually killed Grey. I think she was halfway into a mental breakdown before she even went up on the stand.

        Just finished replaying, and yeah, I'd say that's definitely the case. I noticed throughout her testimonies as "Ini" she kept referring to the murder as her doing "something really bad" as opposed to just "she told me she killed someone." Which might have been her trying to stay in-character, but I think it could be interpreted as her channeling her own realization of what she did.

        I agree with the rest of your thoughts on Mimi, by the way.
  • 'Kay. So.
    I just love this case. I find it interesting from the beginning to the end and all in all this is the case that I found the most enjoyable to play in JFA.
    I can't really describe it coherently, but the atmosphere of the case is awesome.

    Then there's ofcourse:

    - Lotta. I loved her in 1-4, and her return was a very pleasant surprise.

    - Franziska. <3

    - Mimi Miney. Yeah, so I'm a nurse too. She has my sympathies.

  • Okay, so as I was playing through this case I couldn't help but notice how hard Maya is on herself. More than she is in 1-4, there is little of her perky disposition (except in the presence of Pearl, did anyone else notice how she perked up right away when Pearl was present? Not that this surprises me because Maya does that all the time, but I wonder if it's on instinct?) and if there's anything this case proves, it's that Maya has horrible self-esteem.

    PSYCHO-ANALYZE GO

    Maya's mommy issues are pretty obvious. I think she felt abandoned when her mother left her, and has never quite gotten over it, whereas I think Mia understood more and coped by throwing herself into "find out the truth". I will babble more about this in 3-5, but as Maya is very quick to blame herself for things, and Maya's loyalty is so easily won I'm wondering if it has to do with the lack of self-esteem.

    Anyway, the way Maya idolizes Mia is also pretty obvious. Mia did most of the raising, and it's interesting that Maya is never as open and vulnerable with anyone as she is with Mia. Mia was Maya's whole world, pretty much, and I wonder if Maya puts Mia on a pedestal so high she feels inadequate in comparison. Even when they're both adults, Maya is still a little girl in comparison - sizewise, attitude-wise, and I'm fairly sure Maya feels she falls short (SEE WHAT I DID THERE) when it comes to Mia. (Not being able to channel Mia in 1-4 made her feel pretty useless)

    And now the duties of the Master. Maya was pretty eager to get away from Kurain, and even before shit went down in 3-5 I can't see her being very eager for them. She never refers to them eagerly, and this is Maya, who is excited over everything. Bu she can only muster up "I guess I will be Master someday". I mean, part of it I'm sure is that her being Master means saying goodbye to mother (MOMMY ISSUES), but it's a huge responsibility and I don't think Maya ever felt she was good enough. And I'm sure there was pressure from everyone about being a good Master, sooo.

    I think maybe Maya has an inferiority complex or something, or atleast doesn't feel like she'll ever measure up to her mother and sister. It seems consistent with her very low self-esteem (look how much she beats herself up in this case alone. If she can beat herself up over something here, she does. I bet she even blamed herself for Mia's death at one point, and I can't see her not blaming herself for her mother's/whatever happens to Godot, even though her self-esteem is better at the end of T&T)

    I also wonder if her Steel Samurai obsession goes hand in hand with her want for happy endings. Like Pearl and obsessing with romance, the Steel Samurai always wins and fights for justice and there's always a happy ending. I think Maya's obsession has more to do with that (especially with how unhappy her life is, and how many people she loses)

    Plus, you know when her fangirling was strongest? 1-3, right after Mia died (and "lost" to the "bad guy", even though she got Redd in the end)

    so, uh, yeah 8| psycho-analyzing Maya

    I have a lot more to say on this case so I'll ramble more but that's it on little miss Fey for now
    • Wow. It seems you've nailed Maya pretty well. She was really down even before the channeling. Later, in Justice For All and Trials and Tribulations, it's obvious that this whole incident has effected her.

      I guess I missed some of this because I was in 'gotta catch the real murderer' mode.
    • Great analysis.
  • - "I know how to cheer you up! LOOK, A REAL PISTOL!" still makes me laugh.

    - Of all the characters, Pearl's the one who surprised me the most; I remember expecting not to like her all. Kid characters, from my experience, seem to be some of the hardest to write--you don't want to make them too smart to the point that they seem like an adult in a child's body, but you don't want to make them too naive or cutesy that it feels forced or obnoxious, either. Pearl's a nice balance of the three.

    - I have a greater appreciation for Morgan this round, both as a character and a villain, passive-agressiveness and all. Even the smallest of touches like "I have already sent a repair bill to your office, Phoenix Wright :)" are great.

    - I really like Pearl!Mia's sprites. I can't put my finger on it, but her design and expressions seem to translate better into Pearl's than Maya's. Might be a result of the sprites becoming increasingly more polished as the games are released, though.

    - Interesting that when presenting Mia's profile to Morgan, she doesn't correct you on calling Mia and Maya "Mystic"...

    - And weird that she doesn't have anything to say about Ami.

    - Franziska whipping Phoenix into unconsciousness was...weirdly...hot.

    - Has there been a Fey family mafia AU fic written yet? Seriously.
    • ....... Fey Family mafia AU needs to be written. NEEDS.

      I also love Morgan

      Yeah. Actually, Morgan "forgets" who Mia is. I chalk this up to Morgan's disdain of Mia leaving the village to go lawyering. Plus I don't think Mia had any interest in Kurain to begin with

      Edited at 2010-10-20 06:45 pm (UTC)
  • THOUGHTS (Day 1, I loev this case so I have a lot of commentary)

    -I love Morgan. She's so passive-aggressive. And her bitching at Phoenix and dragging Gumshoe off by the ear... I just lol'd forever. Especially the disses against Lotta (get out Lotta Hair)

    -I don't think Turner Grey drugged Mimi, but like someone above me said, ignored a few protocols and ran her too hard. But Mimi was willful and stubborn - and drove even when she was tired. I could see her doing that. And shirking her responsibility

    -Franziska is awesome. She's just awesome. I love her finger-wagging

    -Phoenix claiming Maya couldn't have killed Turner Grey because he was bigger than her.... that wasn't an issue in 1-2, and Maya is like, what boob-height to Maya? Just thought it was funny

    -Phoenix: What is with that "are you finished yet" laugh?
    Franziska: Are you finished, Mr. Phoenix Wright?
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