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Justice for All time! If you're behind, this is an excellent…

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Justice for All time! If you're behind, this is an excellent opportunity to jump ahead, since you can do so without losing the save game you're already working on!

Also, it's totally okay to post stuff related to older cases in the current discussion post. It's not like we're going to run out of comment space or anything. The whole "Official [Case] Discussion post" thing is mostly to keep track of where we are in the schedule.

Anyway, without further ado:

Official 2-1 Discussion Post

For all your discussing needs! Or something! Feel free to post:
  • Entertaining quotes!

  • Thought-provoking meta!

  • Wild crack theories!

  • Plot bunnies!

  • Banana jokes!

  • Thoughts on plot-convenient amnesia!

  • Debate about which victim in the series is most utterly forgettable!

  • Anything and everything else!

Have at it! And have fun!
  • IIII really don't like Maggey or this case (aside from the circular storytelling thing, that was pretty rad. Oh and the cracks at Winston Payne) so I don't think I'll be playing it. We seem to have lost a lot of people, though, maybe it would be a good idea to rehaul the schedule a bit? I dunnos
    • Yeah, I noticed. Life gets in everyone's way, including mine :P Tonight I'll put up a post asking if we want to slow the schedule down a bit and finish sometime after Christmas.
      • I actually just started Rise From the Ashes on Monday or Tuesday--time is moving in such a way lately that I can't quite remember which... Anyway, I was planning on skipping this case and jumping back in with the next one.
  • I finished this case! But I don't have much to say about it. Uh, Gumshoe's crush on Maggey is kind of cute... that's about it.
  • (no subject) - dayofgrey
    • I'm also a lefty, and I sort of had the opposite problem. As soon as I saw the writing I was like "I BET HE'S LEFT-HANDED" and then that didn't come up for like four more testimonies so I was flailing around missing what I was actually supposed to be presenting. I felt like a little kid who knows the answer in class waving my arm around like an insane person while the teacher refuses to call on me.

      A similar thing happened to me in 2-2. Morgan Fey's name is a damn spoiler.
    • Yeah, the glove threw me off the first time. I remember having such an issue with looking at it and going "but wait, this glove is meant to be worn on a person's right hand...?" Yeah. I know nothing about baseball, so someone had to point out to me that the glove would be worn on a person's non-dominant hand.

      So I only know it now because of the baseball lecture I got from being so confused the first time, haha. ^^; I'm primarily left-handed, too. I feel like the glove thing would be a lot easier to figure out in person than inside a game where the glove doesn't physically exist.
      • I got it immediately, because I kinda grew up on Encyclopedia Brown, and these sorts of contradictions are exactly the kind of things that Encyclopedia Brown would use to determine who the real culprit was.

        Same with picking apart Kudo's testimony in 3-3, I was like unto a god when it came to pointing out left/right inconsistencies.
        • Encylopedia Brown! Oh man, that takes me back. I think I have the complete oeuvre in my attic somewhere.
  • Even though it's generally an overused and (consequently) frowned upon plot device, I actually really love how the amnesia was put to use here. Besides being a good excuse for a tutorial/review round, I think it's very thematically appropriate, especially with the events of the final case in mind (and the recurring "lost identity" theme). Plus I love how that opening scene is used again later.

    Also loved that, in the end, Phoenix couldn't remember who Payne was.

    Favorite line: (Maggey recounting another moment of bad luck) "There was an old lady, pacing back and forth by the pedestrian crosswalk. I gave her my hand and...before I knew it, we were having dinner at my house."

    Back to 1-5! And formulating some thoughts on 1-4, possibly maybe...
  • What I found most fascinating about this case it's the way it introduces - but not quite - one the themes of the whole second game, that is all the murderers in these trials are people who refuse to assume responsibility for their acts.

    I don't mean in the "let's get someone else get found guilty for my murder" sense, though: that's obviously common to all the criminals in the series. I mean... Wellington should have been a lot more careful of his mobile when he had all the numbers of the con-gang in it, shouldn't he? Also, maybe, not have them in his phone's memory? As a criminal it's his responsibility to keep his activities secret and to protect his fellow criminals. Not that I'm justifying crime or saying there's a code of honour or anything, just that it's childish and quite stupid to demand of life and other people to be careful of his secrets. It's not as clear as Mimi not taking responsibility for the patients' deaths or Acro acting as if Bat's excessive naiveté had nothing to do with him, not to mention Engarde and his 'I haven't killed anybody, dude'; but it's there. At least it seems so to me.

    It's the reason why I detest the "Justice for All" murderers more than the others in the other games, I suppose, and why I wanted to get them so badly I rushed through the game like a very angry rushing thing. Oh, and this goes for Morgan (le) Fey as well, though we find out in the next game what she's refusing responsibility for.

    As for the rest, I LOVE Gumshoe and his semi-hopeless crush on Maggie and I lovelovelove Maggie because she's so very indipendent. She may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but she has a mind of her own and she's not easily swayed (see "Trials and Tribulations and "Investigation").

    Also, I agree with militarypenguin about the "lost identity" theme and how the amnesia was an excellent introduction to it, though, if I may, I'd amend that to "lost or hidden identity", but that's only because I'm an old nitpicking bore.
    • That's a really interesting point about it setting up the theme of murderers who refuse to assume responsibility. I know that as I was replaying this case, I thought Wellington had something in common with the other murderers, but couldn't put my finger on it.

      And so long as we're nitpicking, don't you mean "Maggey"? ;)
      • HAHAHAHA! I'm such an idiot! You can freely call me Wellington, I'm too busy spitting in me own face. :-D

        I just thought of it, actually, but do you think maybe the whole game is geared to get Phoenix to find out his own identity as a defence attorney and to take responsibility for it? I suspect there's another underlying theme, as well, of which we should get some hint in the first case; about relationships, maybe?

        Edited because idjit me clicked submit instead of preview. *sigh*

        Edited at 2010-10-09 01:05 pm (UTC)
    • It's been a while since I last played JFA, so I can't comment too thoroughly on it, but I do remember getting a sense of that while playing. Definitely something to keep in mind and look out for on replay.
    • (no subject) - dayofgrey
      • Yes, you're right.

        I was just thinking how muddled relationships seem to invade all the cases - actually I was a bit muddled myself - i.e. Maggey's murky love(?) triangle with Dustin and Gumshoe. She denies romantic interest in both, Gumshoe clearly has a crush, if not more, but what about Dustin? Why were rumours about a possible wedding circulating? And what exactly is Wellington to the con-gang? A member? A wannabe member that can be used? An outside informant?

        I think - and I wish I could be clearer in my own mind about this - that each case ups the ante on this aspect as well. The Feys complicated family history plus the doctor-nurse-sister thingy; then you have all the tangled web of parents/suitors/protectors in the circus; and, of course, it all explodes out in the open in the last case. It's like Phoenix himself is background to all those threads until he has to face them in his own life, inside AND outside the courtroom, in the Engarde debacle.

        Though, of course, this could just be me overthinking and overanalysing things as usual.

        Edited because I suck at typing
        AAAAAAARGH! I double suck at typing and proofreading. *sob*

        Edited at 2010-10-14 05:27 pm (UTC)
  • I just finished this case. I know. I'ma skip ahead to 2-4. But I have to ask this, if anyone is still reading:


    Like flyingskull pointed out, everyone thinks they're together, there's rumors of a wedding, but Maggey denies it, says they were never lovers, the glove was a thank you present.

    So, to my mind, the options are:

    1 - Something was going on, but like Gumshoe's feelings for her, Maggey was entirely oblivious. She just thought they were buds, never realizing that Dustin had feelings for her.

    1.5 -And Dustin himself never realized Maggey didn't know what was going on.

    2 - There was legitimately nothing going on. But you know how those coppers love to gossip.

    3 - There was legitimately nothing going on BUT DUSTIN REFUSED TO ACCEPT IT. So in love with Maggey, he thought that if he talked about it enough, if enough people believed in it, their love would become real and true.

    I like option 3 the best, in which Dustin is A TOTALLY CRAZY CREEPER. Someone needs to fic it up, y/y?

    In related news, I'm not terribly fond of this case. Wellington is unbelievably annoying, and I think the amnesia thing is sort of stupid.
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