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The Ace Attorney Group Playthrough Community

A rundown of how the marathon is going to work is on the community's profile page.

Please pimp this comm as much as you can! Draw your flists in! More people means more fun!

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Mod is behind, too. This is okay. Anyway, yay, Rise from the Ashes!

Official 1-5 Discussion Post

For all your discussing needs! Or something! Feel free to post:
  • Entertaining quotes!

  • Thought-provoking meta!

  • Wild crack theories!

  • Pleas for gameplay help!

  • Plot bunnies!

  • Spot-the-reference-to-later-games!

  • Cracks about "intellectual attraction"!

  • Gantraep!

  • Speculation about how many members of the cast Angel has slept with!

  • Anything and everything else!

Have at it! And have fun!
  • (no subject) - gullible
    • I definitely think it's the longest and most annoying. It's mostly the investigation. Even though 5-5 was annoying (especially since Quirky Alfalfa wouldn't give it up and continued on being a bitch until the very end), luminoling, angle-matching, that Badger video, (and even trying to figure out what to examine for me) and just the sheer amount of running around you have to do in this case. And IMO the plot didn't get interesting until closer to the end, so I was really just going around in circles until things started to heat up
    • According to Youtube length, 2-4 and 3-5 are actually longer than 1-5, and AAI-5 is shorter. But it's very easy to waste lots and lots of time flailing around uselessly in 1-5 without any idea what to do, and the final cross-examination or whatever against Alba is really tedious, which sure makes it feel longer.
  • I recently replayed this case and did this running commentary thing on my journal, with screencaps and everything. Most of my thoughts are there, so if you're interested, or if you just want a condensed version of 1-5...

    The Bit Before The Case Gets Interesting
    Gant's A Dick
    SCIENCE!
    Now With More Blue Badger
    I'm Running Out Of Juice
    Overly Grand Finale

    So, with all that said...

    I did this primarily to see if I could get a better grasp on Gant. However, the main conclusion I reached was that I'll never get him down perfectly because he's just so damn complex.

    I don't play Damon Gant. Damon Gant plays me. D8
    • Damon Gant is awesome and you are awesome for playing him

      Furthermore, I am reading your commentary and I now ship Angel/Godot. THANKS FOR THAT
      • I don't play him as much as I make a crude imitation of him that some people are pleased with. I'm much more confident about my Shelly, and still...

        PUMPKIN METAPHORS/COFFEE METAPHORS, OTP.
  • - Speculation about how many members of the cast Angel has slept with!

    I was not aware that there were valid answers other than "All of them."
    • There aren't, actually. IT'S A TRICK QUESTION

      Perhaps a better one would be "speculation about how Angel has slept with each member of the cast."
  • I fail at this case, apparently.

    "Ohno, what will we do?! Her testimony is flawless!"

    If by flawless you mean every piece of evidence contradicts every statement she's made, then yes, it's pretty flawless.
  • "What the hell was that wriggling piece of plywood?"

    Still one of the best Edgeworth lines ever. (I have so many favorites, it's hard to choose. Although "Verily, I say. Ergo!" is way up there.)

    And I can't believe I finished this one on schedule! (Mainly because I had no shame about consulting a walkthrough for the replay. I still remember how much time I spent the first time through, pitifully examining everything in every room because for some reason I thought that was going to help me figure out what to do next.)
  • Am I the only one amused at the fact that Gumshoe admits to never being able to remember his own card number to get into the evidence room, but he has Edgeworth's memorized?
  • Before we get too far past the point where it's even relevant -- I really enjoyed the Gant screencap posts (thank you!), so I thought I'd share my own series of posts from a couple of years ago when I played through chapters 1-4 in Japanese and English and blogged about the differences. Sadly, I never did finish 1.5 in Japanese (or, at least, I never blogged about it), but for what it's worth!

    http://sara-tanaquil.livejournal.com/tag/pw%20challenge

    Edited at 2010-10-07 12:32 am (UTC)
    • Omg, this is awesome. Thank you! I played a bit of Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese, and after that I've been really wondering how #1 might be different.

      I knew Maya's favorite food was ramen, but didn't realize it was miso ramen in particular. She's got good taste. :P
    • Thank you for sharing that! I'm often curious about the differences between the versions, but my Japanese is pretty poor (and my kanji skills are absolutely terrible).
    • Thanks for that! I really fint this stuff interesting, especially how characters address each other. I saw a promo teaser for PW in japanese and was intrigued by Edgeworth calling Maya "Mayoi-kun" since he really doesn't strike me as a guy who uses honorifics. Also, Maya doesn't call anyone (but Pearl?) by their first name in the Japanese version, not even Phoenix. In the English it's more like 95% of the time she calls people Mr/Mrs. Lastname. I'm assuming it's a Kurain manners thing

      And Von Karma calling himself a super pretentious version of I is just hilarious

      I love all your notes actually :D I HOPE YOU DO THE OTHER GAMES SOMEDAY
      • was intrigued by Edgeworth calling Maya "Mayoi-kun" since he really doesn't strike me as a guy who uses honorifics

        Actually, that sounds very like Edgeworth to me. Edgeworth is the kind of guy who uses proper honorifics not only to be scrupulously polite (because he's professional at all times), but because it keeps people at a distance. That's why I find it so touching when he does drop the honorifics.

        And yeah, it's pretty typical that Maya doesn't use first names for anyone outside the family; she's a polite girl, too. (More generic politeness than Kurain-specific, I think.) Phoenix is the person she's closest to, and he's older than her, and technically her boss, so first names would be inappropriate. (That's what makes it so hilarious when her family insists that he call her "Mayoi-sama" [Mystic Maya, don't get me started on that stupid name] and he's all ???)

        Sorry, obviously I'm fascinated by the names thing too! I'll stop now. ^__^
        • Well, I figured he'd stick to the Ms/Mr. like usual, I thought -kun was more familiar but I could be wrong

          HAHA well she ain't so polite when she's making cracks at the prosecutors/witnesses to Phoenix, but I see your point. I thought it was a Kurain thing since Morgan and Pearl were all about the Mystic and Pearl doesn't call anyone anything without Mr/Mrs/Mystic. Mia was also pretty formal. She called Godot Mr. Armando in 3-4, although it's not clear how much they knew each other before the case. He was already calling her Kitten, though

          (I'm curious as to what Mia calls Maya) Maya's pretty familiar with Phoenix, though, mooching food off of him and all. I doubt she sees him as her boss at all, and they're definitely close 8)

          Haha Mayoi-sama, that's hilarious. I don't know that there's a good english equivalent to that, so Mystic was probably the closest thing

          Go right ahead, Love the names thing 8)
          • Actually, I was wondering how much weight to put on the -kun.

            To be most formal, he would use -san (and I can't remember if maybe he does at first, or if he ever addresses her directly when they first meet?). However, -kun is appropriate for a senior to use toward a junior in formal situations. It does sort of convey to me, though, that he's treating Maya not as a total stranger but as trusted younger colleague. Mia called Phoenix Naruhodo-kun when she was alive. I might be over-interpreting, though; it might just be a normal way for an older person to address a younger one respectfully. I haven't lived in Japan, so I miss the finer nuances sometimes.

            Related to that, one of my friends pointed out in the comments to one of my posts that Maya calling Phoenix Naruhodo-kun is indeed inappropriately informal, because you should never call an older person who's your boss -kun. So I think she does think of him as more of a friend/equal, just not to the point of using first names. (I'm having a hard time thinking of anyone in the game but Dahlia who ever calls Phoenix Ryuuichi or any variation on it. I think she might have called him Ryuu-chan, although it's been too long since I played that game in Japanese to remember for sure.)
            • I don't think Edgeworth ever addresses her directly until 1-4, although when he refers to her in the trial it's Ms. Fey (Which he'd do regardless, because trial = all formalities)

              That's actually pretty cute, and I think so too, since he's calling her by her first name. And it would make sense for Edgeworth to do that (Although I find it interesting in the English version, he only calls Larry (?), Maya, Franziska, and Pearl by their first names)

              Yeah, I think she does. In T & T she actually makes a comment about how he's like her little brother, and the whole "Mia asked me to take care of you" in 1-2

              And yeah, Dahlia called him Ryuu-chan, which is extremely hilarious, but I don't know if anyone else did
    • As coincidence would have it, I was just thinking about this stuff! I love you for doing this and I really hope you continue with this project some day, since I don't know a lick of Japanese but I'm really curious about some things in the original versions of the games. <3

      And I'm very glad you enjoyed those posts! I did the same thing for 2-4 as well and I shall be linking them when the time comes~
      • Wow, I'm really happy that everyone enjoyed reading them! I was going back through it thinking "This was fun to write, but probably it'll sound really boring to everyone else...?"

        It does make me want to take up blogging about the differences again, except that I lost my Japanese copy of Justice For All quite some time ago and now only have an English version. (I have the strangest assortment of Japanese-only, English-only and Japanese-English PW cartridges in my collection -- there's no logic to it.) I've been meaning to rebuy the Japanese version for a while now, so maybe I'll see if I can get it in NYC this weekend!

        I look forward eagerly to screencap commentary from 2-4. ^__^
  • LANA IS A LEOPARD WOMAN.

    I laughed out loud on the train at that, and the dude sitting next to me gave me SUCH A LOOK. Whatever, he DOESN'T UNDERSTAND.

    Also, I liked when we were first visiting Edgeworth's office, and Phoenix is like, "Soooo, Mr. King of Prosecutor's," and Edgeworth is like, "Wipe that stupid smirk off of your face, Wright."

    AND OH EMA, I LOVE YOU SO MUCH. COME OVER TO MY HOUSE AND WE WILL MAKE SLIME OUT OF CORNSTARCH.

    I also like when Ema calls Edgeworth a stud.


    (Also, I kind of want Angel/Edgeworth now).
    • I forgot to comment on how much I loved Edgeworth's office! I could examine everything in it forever. The chess set!
  • - The first time I heard "Cough-Up Queen" my mind went straight to the gutter. In my defense, Ema's "Ew!" didn't help either.

    - "This cactus... is a lot like my sister, actually. Encased in a cold, rigid shell, with thorns pointing in every direction..." How very...Utena.

    - Good lord, so many typos in this case.

    - Edgeworth: "I'll pass onto you what someone told me when I was just starting out. When you've run into a wall with no place to go, return to the basics." Did von Karma teach him that?

    - Bet Jake is just drinking grape juice.

    - I wonder if Ema developed a fear of lightning not unlike how Edgeworth got his fear of earthquakes.

    - I keep forgetting that Neil was the younger of the two brothers (though now that I think about it, Neil really does look like the younger of the two). Probably because the older one is usually the most likely to get offed in fiction.

    - "Too bad I won't be around to work with you [Ema]...when you become a real scientific investigator." Even if you are around, you probably won't be seeing that anytime soon, Jake...

    - Never noticed how the dialogue of the guy writing up a novel in the Criminal Affairs Department and the police and patrolman in front of the Police Department changes. Also, Police/Patrolman OTP. They make a good pair.

    - Examining Gant's office is also really interesting this round. I never examined the floor before.

    - I like this case, I do, but since learning about how it was an added-on case, and after reading some critical thoughts on it by others, my feelings on it are a lot more mixed. On one hand, I love some of the characters it brings in, but on the other hand, I really, really didn't like how it retconned Edgeworth's "demon prosecutor" history so he was innocent all along, or changed the grounds of his leaving.

    Edited at 2010-10-17 09:17 pm (UTC)
    • apparently i had a lot to say about that

      - Did von Karma teach him that?
      Or his father. Much more interesting if it was von Karma, though. He seems to be dealing pretty well with everything that happened in 1-4 (or at least, he's clearly able to function in his day to day life); maybe part of his strategy is to divorce in his mind the Manfred von Karma who mentored him and the Manfred von Karma who betrayed him.

      -Police/Patrolman OTP
      YES.

      - I really, really didn't like how it retconned Edgeworth's "demon prosecutor" history so he was innocent all along, or changed the grounds of his leaving.
      I was really disappointed when I first found out it was an add-on case, more so when they didn't even bother changing some of the dialog in the second game that had them saying he disappeared 1-4. I still wish they'd worked it in a bit more neatly.

      I don't think the events of 1-5 make him innocent of his past. Sure, he didn't know that there was evidence tampering happening, but we know that he thoroughly coached witnesses, instructing them to leave out crucial information. Some of the things he says in 1-4 make it clear that he knows that von Karma's tactics aren't completely clean--maybe he doesn't know von Karma's actually doing things that are illegal, but certainly he's stretching the law, exploiting loopholes, and doing things that are morally repugnant--and he still respects the man. And he's still a brutal prosecutor after his return, though his goals may be more noble: he tears through Adrian in 2-4.

      I think, between 1-4 and 1-5, the revelations of 1-4 would have been much more traumatic to me, were I Edgeworth. So of course, I've got to try to figure out what was going on with him to make 1-5 be the thing that pushes him over the edge. Here's what I've got: If 1-4 didn't break him, I think it's because he found strength in finally being free from von Karma, and in his anger over what happened. Because I think, if this isn't want sent him fleeing to Europe, he must have gotten angry instead of desperate. And I think that's supported in 1-5, because he is so. sassy. in that case, with a sort of cocky confidence we hadn't seen so distinctly in him before (I mean, obviously he was sort of a confident dick in the rest of the first game, but I don't know, it has a different quality in 1-5. More genuine, somehow). I think he got even more focused on his work, found strength in it, but also got even more isolated. But he didn't care, because he was pissed. Fuck 'em, he didn't need them, or von Karma, or anyone. He was still Miles-fucking-Edgegworth, and if nothing else, he was a fucking God among prosecutors. And I think someone has married to the job as Edgeworth could legitimately find safe haven in that fact.

      But then 1-5 comes along, and all of that is shattered. In 1-4, some fucked up shit happened, but at the end of the day, he was absolved. However Manfred may have betrayed him, Miles Edgeworth did not kill his father. But in 1-5, whether he was aware of it or not, he's one of the bad guys. He takes his job seriously, and he feels personal responsibility for enabling this sort of activity. I think, even before 1-4, this would have bothered him. I think he was willing to bend the law to win, but not break it; breaking it would make him a criminal, after all. But after 1-4, he's starting to see things differently, starting to find his humanity again. So not only is he upset that he's broken the law, but he's probably starting to think about all the people he's gotten convicted, and what if they were innocent? He's always known that's a risk, but it's different now, knowing he wasn't always armed with the truth.

      So now even his work is a dangerous place, something he can't live with. And now it's not his mentor who he's angry with, but himself. And he's got nothing else to turn to.

      If 1-5 had been the only recent blow-up in his life, I don't know that he would have run off to Europe. But with 1-4 and 1-5 right on each other's heels--that sort of turmoil in both his personal andprofessional life--that's when it was too much.

      ....aaaaand WHEW.
      • Re: apparently i had a lot to say about that

        Oh, I don't doubt that Edgeworth's reasons for leaving as a result of 1-5's events (and only a month after 1-4, at that) were justified, possibly even more than his reasons for leaving as a result of 1-4's events. And that in of itself lies one of my problems with it: it's way too explicit in its reasoning. In JFA, Phoenix feels befuddled and betrayed by Edgeworth's sudden running away, largely because it came right out of nowhere. He just saved his life, and how does he get repaid? With a suicide note. What a dick! With the events of 1-5 in mind, however, that mystery is eliminated, and it's no wonder that Edgeworth left. After being grilled endlessly throughout the case, who wouldn't want to?

        Which brings me to my next complaint: the implication of Edgeworth's leaving after 1-5 is that it's due to circumstances that were beyond his control. Compare that to the implication of his leaving after 1-4 being due to a rival/friend making him reconsider the beliefs and moral code he faithfully clung to for so many years and it's less...meaningful, really.

        I don't think the events of 1-5 make him innocent of his past. Sure, he didn't know that there was evidence tampering happening, but we know that he thoroughly coached witnesses, instructing them to leave out crucial information. Some of the things he says in 1-4 make it clear that he knows that von Karma's tactics aren't completely clean--maybe he doesn't know von Karma's actually doing things that are illegal, but certainly he's stretching the law, exploiting loopholes, and doing things that are morally repugnant--and he still respects the man.

        Good points.

        And he's still a brutal prosecutor after his return, though his goals may be more noble: he tears through Adrian in 2-4.

        Absolutely. And I'll have more to say about that when I get around to replaying it.

        Edited at 2010-10-26 05:56 am (UTC)
        • Re: apparently i had a lot to say about that

          Which brings me to my next complaint: the implication of Edgeworth's leaving after 1-5 is that it's due to circumstances that were beyond his control. Compare that to the implication of his leaving after 1-4 being due to a rival/friend making him reconsider the beliefs and moral code he faithfully clung to for so many years and it's less...meaningful, really.

          Aaaah. That's a really good point.

          I think, for me, I see both 1-4 and 1-5 as being responsible for his departure. I think the Edgeworth we see in 1-5 is a man who has found a very specific way to cope, and when that's taken from him, he falls apart. 1-5 is the straw that broke the camels back, but the damage was really done by 1-4. Because as much as it must have been a relief for him to finally discover he didn't murder his father, that shit was fucked, man.

          You're right in that it doesn't explain why Phoenix is so hurt and confused. Well, I mean, you think your friend/rival committed suicide, you're going to be hurt and confused. But accusing him of leaving because of his sullied win record doesn't make as much sense after 1-5.

          Definitely sloppiness on their part, and I do wish they'd made more of an effort to make it a seamless addition, if they were going to add it on.
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