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Now here's the good stuff. Turnabout Goodbyes aka The Story of…

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Now here's the good stuff. Turnabout Goodbyes aka The Story of Edgeworth's Issues

Official 1-4 Discussion Post

For all your discussing needs! Or something! Feel free to post:
  • Entertaining quotes!

  • Thought-provoking meta!

  • Wild crack theories!

  • Pleas for gameplay help!

  • Plot bunnies!

  • Samurai Dog innuendo!

  • Elaborate backstory exploration that inevitably ends in von Karma tasering everyone!

  • Tentacle!Gourdy!

  • Anything and everything else!

Have at it! And have fun!
  • I am really off my game tonight DX
  • Is it possible? I'm behind already? D:
  • I'm just going to say Manfred is a total bitch to draw. That counts as discussion, right?
  • Not very good discussion since I just started the case, but I have to say that I am incredibly proud of myself for managing to play cases 1-3 in one day.

    Also:

    "Edgeworth, we don't have so much free time that we can come down here just to laugh at you."
    ".... Yes you do."

    SNERK.
  • "You've had a long day. Shut your pie-hole."
    • Somehow I never would have guessed that that was a quote from Von Karma.
  • Spamming a bit, but one thing that keeps bothering me about Phoenix's class trial flashback:

    He starts off saying it was just "some kid's" lunch money. Then during the flashback there's some kid going "give me my money back!" but somehow in the end it turns out to have been Edgeworth's lunch money? o.O I mean, considering how ridiculously important the whole thing is to Phoenix, you'd think he'd remember that it was Edgeworth's lunch money, and even then it doesn't explain random "give me my money back!" kid.
    • I always thought that maybe the "give me my money back" is a classmate of his that he borrowed money from before the class trial. Maybe the kid sees that Phoenix is considered a thief and is worried that he will never got back the money and then begin yelling at Phoenix to give the kid's money back? Since all of the other students is already yelling at Phoenix and all.
      • That could be it. Or some other kid who'd lost his lunch money or something at some other point deciding to jump on the bandwagon. It just threw me off when Phoenix referred to "some kid's lunch money", but then when Edgeworth's introduced in the flashback he specifies that it's his, so I guess Phoenix was just keeping the identity of the kid secret for dramatic effect in the beginning.
  • Playing through the intro to the case, Yanni Yogi's sarcastic little, "Merry Christmas" quip right before he shoots the gun and frames Edgeworth is pretty badass.
  • AUGH. 1-4 already? >O
    I just got back from a weekend with friends and I've got some catching up to do.

    But... MANFRED. I can't believe I've got the hots for a 65-year-old asshole of a man.
  • Once again I'm reminded exactly why, of ALL the characters in the Ace Attorney series, Manfred Von Karma is the only one that frightens me.
    Anyone that obsessed with "perfection" is truly disturbing. The effects of his philosophy and corrollary actions are ridiculously far reaching. I'd almost be impressed if I weren't pushed to laughing nervously while playing the case (and GK1-4).
    And that's not getting into the whole Records Room incident.
    • My thoughts exactly. :| Gant, while probably more destructive in the grand scheme of things, disturbs me far less than VK does. I think it's also the fact that von Karma's motivations make way less sense. Anyone willing to take in a small child and raise them solely to frame them for murder later on is just completely... I don't even know what. o.O;

      The Records Room incident drives me crazy just for the fact that the first time around it took me forever to figure out that the game really wanted me to be an idiot and show my one damning piece of evidence to the crazy many who just plotted a bunch of people's deaths. That's an awesome idea, Phoenix. Just beautiful. =_=
  • Am I to deduce from the shortage of comments that I'm not the only one way behind on this case, then?
    • That's certainly the case for me.
    • I think everybody's behind. And the lack of comments is a vicious cycle, I don't really want to push ahead if I'm gonna be the only one talking about where I am.
    • Yep, I still haven't finished 1-3. Every single class decided to throw a project at my head this week :|
  • MY THOUGHTS ON THIS CASE (I LOVE IT FOREVER THOUGH)

    -Cross-examining Polly was the best thing ever
    -Von Karma you so badass
    -WHAT WAS WITH THAT SCREAM
    -Maya was totally badass when she yelled at Lotta. Actually she kicked ass in this case despite her emo, and saved the day like 5 times
    -Why did no one notice when Von Karma tasered Phoenix?? Aren't there security cameras/guards in the evidence room? Seriously
    -am I the only one who thought von Karma was kinda creepering on Maya. "YES, MY DEAR DEFENSE ATTORNEY *leer*"
    -DL-7... ACTUALLY I don't understand why Misty Fey was chased out for being a fraud. Hammond only got him off the hook because he had "brain damage" - in his version of the defense Yogi WAS the guilty party, so WHY was Misty called a fraud? It makes no sense
    -Phoenix was kind of a dick to Maya in this case except at the end
    -bawww Edgeworth why so emo
    -Edgeworth going WHOOOOOOOOOP was the best thing ever
    -I prefer Larry's testimony in song form
    -Misty is actually a really bad mother. 12 YEAR OLD MIA I'M SHAMED SO I'M GOING TO LEAVE YOU TO RAISE YOUR 2 YEAR OLD SISTER ALL ALONE KTHX /draws picture books
    • DL-7... ACTUALLY I don't understand why Misty Fey was chased out for being a fraud. Hammond only got him off the hook because he had "brain damage" - in his version of the defense Yogi WAS the guilty party, so WHY was Misty called a fraud? It makes no sense

      I'm guessing the Not Guilty verdict was enough for White to twist into something else, even with all the other information surrounding it.

      Misty is actually a really bad mother. 12 YEAR OLD MIA I'M SHAMED SO I'M GOING TO LEAVE YOU TO RAISE YOUR 2 YEAR OLD SISTER ALL ALONE KTHX /draws picture books

      Hahaha seriously.
      • OIC that makes sense. IT WAS ALL REDD, BABY

        I KNOW RIGHT. Don't even get me started on 3-5. SUP LONG-LOST DAUGHTER I'M GOING TO CHANNEL SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO KILL YOU BECAUSE CLEARLY IT'S BETTER FOR HER TO USE MY BODY TO TRY AND STAB YOU THAN YOUR 9 YEAR OLD COUSIN

        ps: I'm going to pretty much ignore you when I do see you
    • I pretty much agree with all of those. So much. :D

      -I got ridiculously excited over cross-examining Polly again. I think that's one of the things I was most excited about replaying for. :| I'm awful.
      -I really love Maya in this case. I was fine with the emo, because it wasn't completely random. With Phoenix going "Hey, can you go get your dead sister?" all the time I'd be a little emo, too. And it didn't stop her from saving the day a billion times, so it winds up being awesome. :D
      -Von Karma creepers on everyone, I swear. :|
      -I didn't understand the whole Misty Fey thing either, but I think I agree with the other commenter that White probably twisted it into something ridiculous for the press, and then that version of events caught on.
      -The WHOOOOP really is the best thing ever. I miss really-socially-inept-and-trying-too-hard Edgeworth, where did he go after this case? :(
      • -Polly is the best witness. Ever. PERIOD
        -I was like MAYA STOP PUTTING YOURSELF DOWN YOU KICK ASS ): but I thought it wastotally understandable. I'm sure she's been holding in emo since 1-2
        -(this is more 1-2 BUT) when I first played and Phoenix was like I'LL DEFEND YOU MAYA BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ONE ELSE ON YOUR SIDE and then came the child flashback this case. And I was like PHOENIX DID YOU SERIOUSLY COMPARE SOME KIDS THINKING YOU STOLE LUNCH MONEY TO BEING FRAMED FOR THE MURDER OF YOUR ONLY FAMILY/PARENTAL FIGURE (aside from Morgan mcMurderface) AND HAVING NO ONE TO DEFEND YOU
        -Yeah I'm thinking it was all Redd too. THE ABOVE COMMENTER HAS OPENED MY EYES
        -Apparently he developed some social skills while he was in Europe. WHODATHUNK
        • -SERIOUSLY. Although when those first Gyakuten Kenji screenshots came out and he was talking to the dolphin I was really hopeful Polly would have a competitor, but alas, that part seems to have been cut. :(
          - I know, right?! Phoenix's obsession with the lunch money thing is so silly. o.O I mean, he's gotten accused of murder twice in his life, and apparently the most traumatizing experience he's ever had was getting accused of stealing money in elementary school? :|
          - Hasn't he been to Europe before, though? Although I guess since he ran off to there specifically in order to reorganize his life he might have subjected himself to rigorous social training or something. (I'm imagining Edgeworth running around France desperately trying to engage in normal social interaction with people and failing miserably, now.)
        • -(this is more 1-2 BUT) when I first played and Phoenix was like I'LL DEFEND YOU MAYA BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ONE ELSE ON YOUR SIDE and then came the child flashback this case. And I was like PHOENIX DID YOU SERIOUSLY COMPARE SOME KIDS THINKING YOU STOLE LUNCH MONEY TO BEING FRAMED FOR THE MURDER OF YOUR ONLY FAMILY/PARENTAL FIGURE (aside from Morgan mcMurderface) AND HAVING NO ONE TO DEFEND YOU

          AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

          .....

          AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH.

          I cannot even breath, that just made me laugh so hard.

          BECAUSE IT IS TRUE.

          We always say Edgeworth is the one problems relating to others, but I'm beginning to think dear Phoenix has some issues, too.

          -Apparently he developed some social skills while he was in Europe. WHODATHUNK

          Here comes some capslock head-canon that I just made up on the spot: IN EUROPE EDGEWORTH REJECTED ALL HE USED TO BE. HE WENT OUT ON THE TOWN, HE TOOK UP A LOVER, HE SPENT LONG NIGHTS THAT TURNED INTO LONG MORNINGS SPEAKING WITH FRENCHMEN IN CAFES, SMOKING EXTRA LONG CIGARETTES, HE ATTENDED BALLS AND GALAS AND CLUBS AND BOARDGAME MEET-UP EVENTS. HE FOUND THE REAL PERSON STILL LIVING INSIDE OF HIM.

          THEN HE SAID FUCK THAT SHIT AND CAME BACK TO AMERICA, LARGELY UNCHANGED. NO ONE MUST KNOW HIS SEEEEEECRETS.
          • IT'S TRUE

            LUNCH MONEY: SERIOUS BUSINESS


            ... Also you totally made me picture french Edgeworth. IT'S A LITTLE DISTURBING ACTUALLY
            • Social ineptness isn't a cornered market.

              I think the significance of the class trial for Phoenix can be explained by the observation that Phoenix doesn't seem to really have friends at that time. It seems like he may have had average friendliness with most of his classmates, he didn't really have anyone he was actually friends with. Combine that with the smartest kid in the class standing up for him against the entire class and the teacher with some sort of epic speech, it probably made a bit of impression on the kid (and led to possible pedestal placing). Larry, the class clown, was an added bonus.

              Why did the three of them become friends after that? Refuge in audacity.

              At then there's this exchange in 3-1 –
              Mia: Also... You need to relax a bit more. Try to grow up a little.
              Phoenix: But... Out of all my friends, everyone says I'm the most grown up!
              Mia: (Eek! What kind of company must this guy keep!?)

              This isn't even getting into the whole relationship with Dahlia.

              Phoenix seems to -choose- friends poorly, be rather lucky in -getting- friends, and to have mediocre social skills.
              (Yeah, asking Maya to channel Mia so many times, even though Maya's mentioned several times that due to lack of training, she's a bit weaker than before – not thinking, are we, Phoenix?)
              He lucked into Mia and Maya. Larry strikes me as the sort of friend who only goes to Phoenix when he's in a pickle (or recently dumped). The rest of his friends – I'm sure I could write a paper about this topic.

              It seems that we're looking at a lot of socially maladjusted individuals in entire series.

              Or at least that's my head canon.
              • Re: Social ineptness isn't a cornered market.

                That's interesting, I never thought of it that way. I didn't think he was that socially awkward, but Phoenix is pretty much the biggest buttmonkey of the series, so... hmmm

                I was terribly amused (and a little horrified, gotta say) by young Phoenix. Considering he was only like 20 or 21, haha, but what you're saying makes sense.

                I can see what you're saying though. Especially considering Phoenix was like 7 at the time, Edgeworth defending him probably did leave a big impression. Come to think of it, I think it's safe to say he really idolized Edgeworth for standing up for the downtrodden and wanted to be that guy.

                Yeeaaaaah. I'm pretty sure Maya has some big self-confidence/self-esteem issues (coupled with I'm pretty sure she was still grieving Mia then, she did make a few comments like "I wonder if I'll ever see my sister again..." complete with KICKED PUPPY FACE). I think he was taking her for granted, almost, because he was so wrapped up in Edgeworth - he changed his attitude up

                I agree about Larry, but I think if push comes to shove, he is a good friend. Even though he's Larry

                Fascinating, though, I'd love to hear more :D
      • I miss really-socially-inept-and-trying-too-hard Edgeworth, where did he go after this case? :(

        Still there, last I checked? More confident after taking a self-discovery vacation, no doubt, but still as easily flustered by social interaction as ever.
        • Yeah, you're probably right. I think I just miss his failed attempts at being nice to people. Then again, no one's been suggesting silly things for him to do, either, so that could be a lot of it.
    • I think what happened in the DL-6 trial was that Hammond won a NOT GUILTY verdict for Yogi because, as he was proved to be mentally damaged by the hypoxia, he could not give testimony and so, no matter what wild accusations a spirit medium may fling, there could be no definitive proof of his guilt. Thus the trial did indirectly prove that Misty "I'm the Worst Mother Ever" Fey was a fraud and this is what Redd White used to discredit the Kurain Technique.

      Misty is actually a really bad mother. 12 YEAR OLD MIA I'M SHAMED SO I'M GOING TO LEAVE YOU TO RAISE YOUR 2 YEAR OLD SISTER ALL ALONE KTHX /draws picture books.

      Isn't it ironic and funny - in a black humour kind of sense - that Morgan seems to have been a better mother than Misty? At least to children with channelling powers, I mean, Mia, Maya and Pearl turned out more than alright, after all.

      Edited to correct typos,

      Edited at 2010-10-09 01:26 pm (UTC)
      • That kind of makes sense! (but usually with Phoenix it would default guilty if the person was unable to testify but I guess it would depend. Also Phoenix has horrible luck)

        YES, actually. I've noted that before - Morgan is more like their mother than Misty. I think Mia did most of the Maya raising (AND SELF-RAISING FOR THAT), but still.

        It's interesting that Morgan could have raised (ish) Mia and Maya while hating them their whole lives and later plotting Maya's death. I mean, she gets awfully protective of Maya when Phoenix comes into the show, funnily enough

        Most people tend to forget that Morgan was pretty much like their mother, though.

        SORRY FOR THE DELAY BTW
        • You're right about everyone being GUILTY until you find whodunnit, but the Yogi trial cannot have ended with a "You're guilty, GUILTY I say! But... you're also mad, so no jail for you. Now go and buy a parrot" can it? I'm 'orribly 'orribly confused now. I deduced he was found not guilty because Misty was discredited for pointing to the wrong man, but who knows?

          About Morgan: Mia was 12 and Maya was 2 when Misty left, who else would have raised them? Not that I'm discounting Mia's influence on Maya, mind you, but Mia must have left to go to school when Maya was still young enough to be conditioned by Morgan, had she so wished (see von Karma vs. Edgeworth). I have the odd idea that Morgan hoped Maya would follow in her sister's footsteps and sodoff - which she more or less seemed to do at a point - so she didn't get murderous until she understood Maya had no intention of NOT becoming the Master.

          I freely admit I tend to try and make sense of things that are not supposed to make any, though.

          WHAT DELAY? DON'T BE SORRY WAAAAAH! [/channelling Pearl] I'm not online every day because of odd work hours, there's really no reason to apologise. :)
          • Well, it was more that Tiny Edgeworth and Yogi were the only two suspects, and they probably dismissed Edgeworth doing it so, so Yanni was the only possible suspect. It's hard to say, I'm just speculating on how Phoenix's trials always go, that even with little evidence the judge is (at first) willing to give a guilty verdict if the defendant is the only suspect

            Don't forget that in 1-2, Maya told Phoenix she was living by herself after Mia left, and that she had to or she'd lose her ESP. Mia must have left for law school at like 19 or so, which means Maya was living by herself at 9. It's not so far-fetched to think Mia and Maya were together and Mia did raising. What I figure is that Maya and Mia lived together, and Maya lived by herself after Mia left, but Morgan was always close-by in case she ever needed anything. And so, Morgan was like a mother-figure - just a little more distantly.

            That would actually make a lot of sense (despite her disapproving of Maya going off with Phoenix and working too hard, that could have just been part of her act though)

            It's totally cool, so do I!

            Okay, I'm not sorry :D
  • I FINALLY FINISHED, GUYS.

    - Replaying this case made me realize I've been maybe a bit too hard on Larry. He came to Edgeworth's trial, jumped onto the stand not because he had anything new to add (that he knew of) but just because HE BELIEVED IN MILES EDGEWORTH, and generally gave two shits, which is not something I tend to give him credit for. I'M SORRY, LARRY, I'LL NEVER DO IT AGAIN.

    - I loved at the end when it was like, "Show Maya some evidence to make her feel better." I mean, I know what they meant, but that is a hilarious way to phrase it. MAYA, LOOK, AN OLD BULLET! DON'T YOU FEEL HAPPY NOW?

    - So what is it Nick, do you believe Edgeworth is innocent or not? When he and Larry are talking in the lobby, he is so ridiculous, one minute saying there is no way Edgeworth did it and then asking Edgeworth if he did it the next.

    - I think I forgot how totally fucked Manfred is. I think it's interesting to see him portrayed in fics as not such a bad guy, but dude, he so is such a bad guy.

    - Also, I'd forgotten about when he's like ONLY YOU DARED DEFY ME, MILES EDGEWORTH. I like to think he meant that more broadly that just in relation to this case. Maybe Miles did not so easily go along with von Karma during his youth, maybe even as an adult. Someone write a cat-and-mouse story about the two of them right after Miles passed the bar! Go go go!
    • -Yeah, I was way more sympathetic towards Larry this time around. He's still... not exactly my ideal person to be bffs with, but okay, he has his good qualities. :D;

      -I feel like all of the "show this person something to make them feel better!" things at the end of the games wind up like that. I can't wait for when we all play the second game. "Quick, Phoenix, give Edgeworth the whip!"

      -Phoenix is a little bipolar or something. Seriously. :|

      -Wait, there are fics where Von Karma is something remotely resembling a decent human being? o-o

      -My mind mentally jumped to playing AAI, where Von Karma tells you not to go around waving your prosecutor's badge at people. I definitely waved it around even more after that just to be vindictive. >>

      I could totally see epic cat and mouse with Edgeworth and Von Karma, though (on a higher level than just badge waving, although it would not surprise me at all if Von Karma was personally affronted to the point of plotting murder by Edgeworth disobeying him in that instance. ... This is Von Karma. It doesn't take much for him to contemplate murder, clearly. :|)
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